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Accounting Leadership

Saying No Is the Ultimate Power Move for Women in Accounting

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Years ago, Nancy McClelland sent a text to Questian Telka that would eventually birth the She Counts podcast. “What if our default wasn’t saying yes?” she asked. As two self-proclaimed yes-aholics who regularly got themselves “into a lot of trouble with how much we say yes,” Nancy wondered what life would look like if they flipped the script entirely, making “no” their default and forcing themselves to justify every yes.

That text conversation planted a seed that grew into episode 14 of She Counts, where Nancy and Questian sat down with Brandy Jordan, a self-proclaimed “Jane of all trades” who’s made a name for herself as Catalyst at Woodard and Concept Alchemist at High Rock Accounting. Brandy knows something about saying no that most of us desperately need to learn.

When “New Scenery With the Same Inbox” Becomes Your Vacation

“For years, vacations were just new scenery with the same inbox for me,” Brandy admits during the conversation. She’d work through every trip, checking emails poolside, taking calls from the beach. No one demanded she stay online. It was her own inner superhero insisting she needed to be available.

The kicker? She was coaching other professionals about boundaries while burning her own to the ground. “The irony was painful,” she says.

Sound familiar? If you’re nodding along, you’re in good company. Nancy hasn’t taken a vacation without her laptop since before the pandemic. Questian can’t remember the last time she took a full weekend off. When she recently took her kids to the pool on a rare day off, she remembers thinking, “Wow, this is a nice feeling. Like I’m not actually working.”

This is the reality for women in accounting, where the pressure to prove your worth through constant availability feels like oxygen: invisible but essential for survival. As Brandy explains from years of coaching high performers, “These are bright, capable people driving themselves into the ground because saying no felt like career limiting or a personal flaw.”

Your Yes Reflex Is Actually Killing Your Career

Here’s the brutal honesty Brandy drops early in the conversation: “Every time you say yes, you’re saying no to something else whether you mean to or not.”

For women in accounting, the pressure runs deeper than just workplace expectations. The industry rewards responsiveness and that service-oriented mindset. It sounds great until you realize you’ve become the default note-taker in every meeting, the organizer of office birthday cards, and the coordinator of team events, all while maintaining your full workload.

“These smaller yeses create patterns of taking on all the extra things that need to be done,” Questian observes. Meanwhile, colleagues who don’t say yes to all the extra stuff actually get their work done while you’re in what Brandy calls “that constant state of feeling like you have to catch up.”

Nancy confesses she literally remembers the last time she felt caught up: 19 years ago, sitting on her front porch at age 34, choosing between the beach and yoga. “I’ve spent the past 19 years trying to get back to that moment.”

Part of the problem is what behavioral economists call the planning fallacy. As Brandy explains, we tend to underestimate how long tasks actually take, even when experience proves us wrong repeatedly. Questian nails it: “I recognize that it takes me about twice as long as I think something’s going to take me, but I still don’t want to acknowledge it.”

We’re not just miscalculating time; we’re completely ignoring mental bandwidth. Some tasks drain us more than others, yet we schedule them back-to-back as if our brains are machines. As a result, we keep telling ourselves we’ll figure it out or catch up next week. But as Nancy points out, being an adult has become “saying I’ll catch up next week, every week for the rest of your life.”

The Revolutionary Difference Between Saying No and Starting With No

“Starting with no is not about being negative or difficult,” Brandy clarifies. “It is about installing a new operating system for your decisions.”

Drawing from Daniel Kahneman’s book, Thinking Fast and Slow, Brandy explains how our reflexive yes belongs to System 1, the quick, emotional, people-pleasing response. Starting with no forces System 2 thinking, where you actually ask whether you can afford the cognitive load, the hours, and the context switching this demands.

Think about budgeting money, Brandy suggests. “If you constantly spend first and figure it out later, you always feel behind and stretched. But if you start each month at zero and consciously decide exactly how to allocate your funds, you’re going to feel empowered and in control.”

The same applies to your time and energy. But you need concrete criteria. Brandy’s approach is to write out five personal values that align with everything you do. Then identify your top three or four career goals. Every request gets filtered through the question, “Can I do this without compromising my other priorities?”

“I’m writing that down,” Nancy said. It’s the question that changes everything because suddenly you’re not asking “Can I squeeze this in?” but “What am I willing to sacrifice?”

How to Actually Say No (Without Feeling Like a Jerk)

“Don’t start saying no to the biggest thing that comes your way,” Brandy advises. “Start small because you have to get comfortable with saying no.”

Her practical framework:

  • Use clear yet empathetic language: “Thank you for considering me, but I cannot take this on right now”
  • Offer alternatives when possible, such as suggesting a colleague who might benefit or be better aligned
  • Give yourself time by saying, “Let me review my workload and get back to you tomorrow”

That pause is crucial. “It gives you space to thoughtfully assess the request without the stress of an immediate reaction,” Brandy explains. “Your fear will diminish because now you’ve thought it through logically.”

Questian admits the pause is her biggest challenge. She recalls immediately wanting to volunteer for a speaking opportunity, even reaching out to Nancy when a colleague declined it. Nancy’s response? “No, I’m going to protect you from yourself here.”

The shift changes how you think about no entirely. “Stop thinking that saying no is inherently selfish or inflexible,” Brandy insists. “By thoughtfully evaluating your commitments, you respect your own capacity and your team’s capacity and ability to rely on you fully when you do commit.”

The Day Brandy Told Herself No

The hardest no Brandy ever said wasn’t to a boss or client; it was to herself. After years of preaching boundaries while working through every vacation, she finally drew the line. The laptop stayed home. Not in the hotel room, not in the bag. “I knew if it was in my bag, I wouldn’t leave it be.”

Notifications went off and she warned her team, “I will be unreachable. Carry on. Don’t break anything.”

The hardest part was silencing that voice insisting something might implode. “It never does,” Brandy reflects. “There’s nothing life-threatening in our line of work that would need anything right away.”

The payoff was immediate: real rest, a fresh perspective, and the end of that hypocritical guilt. Now everyone at work knows, when Brandy’s on vacation, she’s unreachable. Period.

Nancy’s taking her first laptop-free vacation since pre-pandemic after hearing this. She’s even built in buffer days before and after. Her new philosophy? “If this all burns down while I’m gone, then that wasn’t the business I wanted to be running anyway.”

Why Your Team Secretly Wants You to Say No

“Modeling is essential,” Brandy emphasizes. When leaders protect their bandwidth, they demonstrate that focus is a competitive advantage, that thoughtful prioritization—not endless accommodation—delivers excellence.

Nancy discovered this when she vulnerably told her executive assistant, “I need you to help me. I’m not good at this.” She even offered a raise if her assistant could help her survive through July. “That took a lot of vulnerability and it was a little embarrassing,” Nancy admits. “But they’ve really been stepping up for me.”

Something magical happens when you actually disconnect. “It’s amazing what they can figure out when you’re not around,” Brandy observes. Those urgent emails? Already solved. Your team becomes highly self-sufficient when given the space.

The transformation extends beyond individual teams. As Questian discovered, “When I take a vacation and really put everything away, I am so much more efficient. My efficiency level increases substantially.”

Brandy puts it bluntly: “Self-abandonment is unsustainable leadership.”

Your Challenge: One No, Two Weeks

The path forward isn’t complex, but it requires courage. As Brandy says, you need to practice because “anything new is work” at first, but it becomes a habit when you consistently ask, “Does this align with what I want to do?”

Nancy and Questian are committing to trying this approach. Will you? Choose one request in the next two weeks and apply Brandy’s framework. Pause. Evaluate against your priorities. Ask, “Can I do this without compromising my other commitments?”

If the answer is no, practice saying, “Thank you for considering me, but I cannot take this on right now.”

Then head to the She Counts LinkedIn page and share your experience. Because you’re not alone in this struggle, and you shouldn’t have to figure it out by yourself.

As poet Nayyirah Waheed writes, “I don’t say yes because I’m strong. I say no because I am.”

The accounting profession needs leaders who model sustainable excellence, not martyrdom. That transformation starts with two letters: N-O.

Ready to dive deeper? Listen to the full episode above where Nancy, Questian, and Brandy explore every nuance of moving from exhausted accommodation to strategic leadership.

The Math Is Brutal: Every CPA Must Triple Their Productivity by 2035 or Face Professional Extinction

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“When you chart out demand versus supply of people over time, what that math tells you is that ten years from now, 2035, every CPA in the profession will have to be 2.7 times more productive on a revenue per employee basis than they are today. That is crazy.”

David Wurtzbacher shared this projection on a recent episode of the Earmark Podcast. As the founder and CEO of Ascend, a private equity-backed platform that’s completed over three dozen firm acquisitions in just over two years, Wurtzbacher offers an outsider’s perspective on the profession.

His background scaling Lightwave Dental from 7 to 80 locations taught him how private equity can either destroy professional cultures or transform them for the better. Now he’s applying those lessons to accounting, where the numbers paint a sobering picture: demand for services keeps climbing while fewer people enter the profession each year.

To put this in perspective, a typical well-performing firm today generates around $200,000 in revenue per employee. Wurtzbacher’s projection means that number needs to approach $600,000 per person within a decade. Even scarier? By 2035, roughly 85% of the profession will consist of people with ten years or less of experience in an industry where most say you can’t even make partner in that timeframe.

But Wurtzbacher isn’t just highlighting the problem. Through Ascend’s model of preserving firm independence while providing enterprise-scale resources, he’s showing how firms can achieve these seemingly impossible productivity gains through three key transformations.

The Leadership Evolution: From Managing Partner to True CEO

The biggest barrier to 2.7x productivity isn’t technology or talent. It’s how firm leaders spend their time. Most managing partners remain trapped doing client work while trying to run their businesses, creating a fundamental ceiling on growth.

“The very first place we go is to the leader of the firm,” Wurtzbacher explains. “We want to help them through a transition to become a true CEO, defined as them having one client, which is the firm.”

This leadership trap stems from what Wurtzbacher calls the “fiercely independent” culture of accounting. During his research, he consistently heard from entrepreneurial CPAs who valued their independence: the name on the door, community reputation, caring for people and clients their way. But this independence prevents the changes necessary for breakthrough growth.

The problem runs deeper than time management. The client service orientation that defines quality accounting actually caps leadership development. With seasonal demands and constant client pressure, managing partners find limited windows for strategic work throughout the year.

The real breakthrough requires confronting a limiting belief. “When you’re close with your clients, you believe nobody can do the work but you,” Wurtzbacher observes. “No one else can have this client relationship.”

Consider Lee Cohen from LMC in New York, who exemplifies this transformation. Cohen was initially stressed, unhappy, and heavily involved in client work. Through Ascend’s CEO transition process, “Cohen literally became a different person. He would tell you that,” Wurtzbacher says.

Fifty percent of Cohen’s transformation came from a mindset shift. The other fifty percent came from bringing in a Chief Growth Officer—not a traditional business development role, but a general manager from outside the profession. “A lot of them have MBAs, but they are hungry, humble, smart people that come in and create visibility for that leader about what’s going on in the business and where there are opportunities.”

This operational support, combined with the mindset shift away from client dependency, sets leaders free to focus on what only they can do: building and directing their firms.

Creating an “Irresistible Offer” for Top Talent

Even the best leadership transformation can’t solve the profession’s talent crisis through traditional methods. When quality candidates routinely field six, seven, or eight job offers, firms need something fundamentally different.

Wurtzbacher’s solution centers on creating an “irresistible offer,” and it starts with better recruiting. “So many firm recruiters grew up in the profession, and they’re trapped with the baggage of old ways of doing things,” he explains. Ascend built a team of professional recruiters from outside accounting who understand best practices for finding candidates and closing deals.

But the real breakthrough is compensation innovation. While the profession is “very base salary heavy,” Ascend developed an off-the-shelf bonus program that lets firms pay more cash than competitors. They also extended equity ownership far beyond traditional partner levels.

“We have well over 100 people across all our firms that are managers or senior managers that are investors in Ascend. They own Ascend stock,” Wurtzbacher reveals. These employees invest $10,000 to $50,000 annually in company stock—typically funded through the enhanced bonus program—essentially dollar-cost averaging into equity appreciation throughout their careers.

This creates what Wurtzbacher calls “a different cultural energy.” When people understand how equity value creation works outside the traditional partnership model, they connect their daily work to long-term wealth building. The psychological shift from employee to owner fundamentally changes commitment levels.

The design also solves a collaboration problem. Because everyone owns Ascend stock regardless of which firm they work for, “it creates a one team attitude across all our firms” that unlocks knowledge sharing across the platform.

The results speak for themselves. Firms that described capacity as their “#1 issue” now consider that problem solved. “Our big issue now is how do we go and get all the right kinds of new business that we want to keep our great people excited and motivated,” Wurtzbacher notes.

Technology at Enterprise Scale

Achieving nearly triple productivity requires more than incremental improvements. It demands systematic transformation through AI, global teams, and automation that individual firms cannot afford alone.

But there’s a gap between AI hype and reality. “There is so much more hype and future forecasting than there is reality in this area,” Wurtzbacher observes. For firms feeling behind, “that’s just not the case.” Most firms implementing AI are saving perhaps two hours per person per week, and that’s only for the most advanced adopters.

This creates both opportunity and strategic imperative. While individual firms struggle with overwhelming AI options, they lack technical expertise and capital for truly transformative capabilities. The solution requires enterprise scale.

Ascend illustrates this advantage in action. They’re building a 30-person software engineering and AI team by year-end. “No medium-sized or smaller firm is going to be able to do that,” Wurtzbacher explains.

Their strategy operates on two fronts: strategic buying versus building. For general needs, they purchase existing products. For capabilities essential to their workflows, they invest millions annually developing proprietary AI solutions.

One promising area addresses what Wurtzbacher calls the client context problem. Years of relationships generate institutional knowledge typically trapped “in your head, in spreadsheets, in work papers, in your inbox, and some other tool.” Their AI team works on aggregating this context into accessible systems that transform practitioners from information gatherers into true advisors.

Global talent represents another productivity component. Ascend’s acquisition and transformation of Sentient Solutions, a global capability center exclusively serving US accounting firms in Hyderabad, India, demonstrates sophisticated global team integration. But this isn’t simple outsourcing; it requires developing playbooks that elevate rather than replace domestic work.

Even basic infrastructure offers huge opportunities. Practice management systems in accounting are “so messed up,” Wurtzbacher notes. Before AI delivers transformation, firms need fundamental technological foundations for tracking work and maintaining institutional knowledge.

The Choice Facing Every Firm

Survival depends on three interconnected transformations happening simultaneously: leaders evolving from client servers to strategic CEOs, revolutionary talent approaches through equity ownership, and enterprise-scale technology investments individual firms cannot achieve.

This is a watershed moment for professional services. The mathematical reality of 2.7x productivity gains will separate surviving firms from those becoming obsolete. When 85% of the profession will have a decade or less experience by 2035, traditional models don’t just fail; they become mathematically impossible.

But there’s reason for optimism. Firms embracing these changes discover that freeing leaders from client work unleashes strategic energy, equity ownership creates cultural transformation beyond salary increases, and enterprise-scale technology delivers impossible productivity gains.

Wurtzbacher’s personal timeline reinforces this long-term vision. At 37, he tells people “this very well could be the last thing I do. So I’m thinking of Ascend in terms of decades.” While typical private equity investments last three to four years, his commitment spans the time needed for real transformation.

For accounting professionals, this is an existential threat and an unprecedented opportunity. The mathematical moment of truth has arrived. The question isn’t whether change is coming. It’s whether you’ll lead it or be overwhelmed by it.

Listen to the full conversation with David Wurtzbacher on the Earmark Podcast to hear more about Ascend’s approach to transforming accounting firms while preserving their independence.