“There’s nothing worse we can do for our people and our organizations than doing it the way we’ve always done it,” says Erin Daiber, CPA and founder of Well Balanced Accountants. In this episode of the Earmark Podcast, Daiber joins host Blake Oliver to tackle one of accounting’s biggest challenges: how to actually change firm culture instead of just talking about it.
From Big Four Burnout to Culture Coach
Daiber’s story starts with an ironic twist. When she entered business school, she told her parents she’d do “anything but accounting.” Yet a professor convinced her she was good at it, and at 19 or 20 years old, she took that advice to heart. “Being at that moldable stage, I thought, well, okay, I guess that’s what I need to do,” she recalls.
While she doesn’t regret her path, Daiber discovered a fundamental mismatch between her personality and the detailed work required at the staff and senior levels. “I’m not naturally detail oriented,” she admits. “I would get review notes back from my manager and the partners, and I just had nothing left to give. I really couldn’t care less about some of those details, as important as they may have been.”
What kept her going was the people. “I loved interacting with my colleagues on a day-to-day basis,” she explains. But when the managers she connected with left the firm, things unraveled. By the time she reached senior level—about three and a half years in—burnout had taken hold. “I was driving to work, looking at other people doing their jobs and thinking, gosh, that looks nice. Even the guys that were mowing the lawn on the side of the highway, I’m like, at least they get to be outdoors and breathing fresh air every day.”
After leaving for industry work that didn’t solve her problems, Daiber enrolled in a coach training program for self-discovery. Eventually, she found her way back to serving the accounting profession, but with a different mission: helping firms navigate the challenges that drove her away.
The Gap Between What We Say and What We Do
When discussing firm culture, Daiber cuts straight to the heart of the problem. “There’s often the one that we say we have, and then there’s the one that we actually have,” she states. Culture isn’t about the values on your website, it’s about “the values we live by, the behaviors that show up and are accepted and tolerated and encouraged inside of a firm.”
She shares an exercise from her firm retreats: projecting the firm’s stated values on a slide without commentary. “Oftentimes they don’t recognize them because they are not living those values every single day,” she observes. These values become “almost a mythical thing out there that we’re working towards, but not very intentionally.”
To expose this disconnect, Daiber challenges firms with a thought experiment: “If I was observing your organization from the outside in and could hear and see what’s going on, what would I say your values are? Is it profit first? Is it billable hour is king?”
Oliver agrees, sharing his preference for honesty over hypocrisy. “I would almost prefer it if the firms that are not people-first were just open about it,” he says, comparing it to Wall Street investment banks that make no pretense about prioritizing profits. “At least that’s honest.”
What Keeps Firms Stuck in Old Patterns
The conversation reveals three main forces preventing real culture change in accounting firms.
First is the scarcity mindset that infects decision-making. Oliver openly shares his struggle with saying yes to too many speaking engagements, even though he knows it prevents him from focusing on long-term goals and family time. “I say yes to these things, even though I shouldn’t, I know I shouldn’t, but then I do it anyway,” he admits.
Daiber sees the same pattern with client acceptance. She walks firm owners through their fears. “Usually within five or six steps we can get a firm owner to, well, we’ll be bankrupt. We won’t exist anymore.” The reality? “They’re so far away from that, that’s not really going to happen.”
Second is the resistance to change itself. “When I hear of firms that say, ‘we’re just doing it the way we’ve always done it,’ that is like Kryptonite,” Daiber emphasizes. “Nothing in the world is the same as it was even five years ago. How can you justify not changing how you’ve done things and how you’re serving your clients?”
Third is simple busyness. “As soon as we step back into our day-to-day, there is an almost insurmountable inertia that keeps you in that sway of busyness,” Daiber explains. Without creating what she calls “white space” in the day, there’s no capacity to implement changes.
The conversation also touches on structural problems like billable hours (“every hour is not created equal”) and micromanagement that develops when leaders lack diverse management tools. As Daiber notes about micromanaging leaders, “They actually don’t have to take responsibility for it, because you’re going to check in with them all the time.”
Making Change Actually Happen
Moving from theory to practice requires specific actions and uncomfortable decisions. Here’s what Daiber recommends:
Start by saying no
This includes “cleaning up your own mess” by transitioning out clients who don’t align with your values. “Finish out your term of working with that client, but let them know we’re not going to continue,” Daiber advises. Firms need what she calls a “red velvet rope policy” that only accepts clients who “treat our people with respect, value our services, and are willing to pay.”
Create structural changes that force new behaviors
One firm Daiber mentions implemented mental health days with a twist. “If you said, I’m taking a mental health day and anyone was caught making a request of that person on that day, they were the ones in trouble.” Oliver suggests an even more radical experiment: turning off firm email during certain weekend hours.
Build real accountability
“The firms that are really successful with this are willing to call each other out in a respectful way,” Daiber states. This means partners holding each other to commitments. “Hey, that was one of the things we said we were going to not do. Let’s fix that going forward.”
Show genuine appreciation
This goes beyond generic praise. “Catching people doing a good job is so simple. It’s free,” Daiber notes. But it also means “checking in on someone, not just about their progress on a task. How are they feeling? Do they feel like they’ve grown?”
Exit interviews reveal what happens without genuine appreciation. People say, “I don’t feel like I’m a valuable or valued member of the team. No one’s training me. No one’s taking me under their wing,” Daiber shares. “I’m going to go somewhere where I feel like somebody cares about my development.”
Most importantly, leaders must model the values they claim. “Encourage them to take time off and unplug during their time off, don’t email them on the weekend,” Daiber emphasizes. “All of those things that we wish people would do for us, we need to do for them.”
The Choice Every Firm Must Make
As the conversation wraps up, both Oliver and Daiber acknowledge that changing firm culture isn’t mysterious; it’s just uncomfortable. It requires letting go of profitable but problematic clients, breaking long-held habits, and having difficult conversations with colleagues.
“We have to start creating a culture of ownership and responsibility,” Daiber explains. But this can’t happen while clinging to old metrics and methods. Each leader must take personal responsibility for “working through their own blocks and concerns or scarcity or fears around letting go of this old way of doing things.”
The accounting profession faces a clear choice: continue losing talented people to outdated practices and fear-based management, or do the hard work of aligning daily operations with stated values. As Daiber’s own journey shows, when good accountants leave the profession entirely, everyone loses.
Listen to the full episode to hear more about Daiber’s framework for culture transformation, including additional exercises for exposing true firm values and strategies for breaking the micromanagement cycle. Whether you’re a partner watching good people leave, a manager caught between competing demands, or staff wondering if change is possible, the conversation offers a practical roadmap for moving from culture as concept to culture as daily experience.