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When Professional Jealousy Strengthens Friendships: She Counts Season 2 Kicks Off with Raw Honesty

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“How did she get invited to this? And I didn’t get invited. I’ve been in the industry for over 20 years. Why is she more popular than I am?”

Nancy McClelland’s text to her podcast co-host Questian Telka wasn’t meant to be public. But standing before a live audience at Bridging the Gap conference in Denver, Nancy chose to share this raw moment of professional jealousy. In doing so, she showed exactly why She Counts has struck such a nerve with women in accounting.

This special Season 2 kickoff episode marks a full-circle moment. Nancy and Questian met at Bridging the Gap exactly one year ago, and that meeting sparked their friendship and Nancy’s role as a founding member of Ask a CPA. Now they’re back, recording live with guest moderator Erin Pohan of Upkeeping, LLC, who runs the Women in Accounting Visionaries and Entrepreneurs (WAVE) Conference.

The Hidden Work Behind “Real Talk”

Before sharing this vulnerability, the hosts pulled back the curtain on what it takes to create She Counts. “Mad props to anybody out there who does a podcast. It is so much work,” Nancy admitted, even though Earmark handles production. “I was delusional because Earmark is an amazing podcast production company. And I was like, ‘oh, they’re going to do all the hard work.’”

The reality hit hard. Each episode requires hours of planning, rehearsing, and outlining. It’s “like writing a session to present at Bridging the Gap,” Nancy explained. Then there’s finding sponsors (which Nancy calls “so much work”), plus the constant pressure of social media and marketing. “We feel behind all the time. Literally all the time,” she said, seeing nods from other podcasters in the audience.

So why continue? Questian has an idea: “We’re doing it for all of you and all of ourselves, of course, because this is something that we wanted and we didn’t have.”

The payoff came in unexpected ways. While Questian treasures the hour they spend recording together, Nancy was floored by listener responses. “I did not expect so many people to be coming up and saying, when you said this one thing… it made me feel less alone.”

When Your Best Friend’s Success Triggers Your Insecurities

The conversation turned deeply personal when Erin asked about putting themselves out there publicly. Nancy’s response made the room go quiet.

“I remember the first time you went to Scottsdale,” Nancy said to Questian, her voice shaking. “And I texted you, and I was like, how did you get invited to this and I didn’t get invited.” The hurt went deeper than professional disappointment. “How does she know all the cool kids? I don’t know the cool kids. The cool kids think I’m a nerd.”

These feelings connect to old wounds. Nancy mentioned being “beat up in the locker room” and feeling like everyone was against her in high school. But instead of letting jealousy fester, she took it to therapy.

Her therapist’s response changed everything: “Nancy, do you want what she has?” When Nancy said yes, the therapist explained, “So that’s what envy is. Emotions aren’t inherently positive or negative. It is just a fact to say, I wanted to be invited to Scottsdale. How is that a bad thing?”

The breakthrough came when Nancy texted Questian directly. “I said, hey, what’s this Scottsdale thing? How come I didn’t get invited? Did you not invite me?” Questian’s response dissolved the tension. It was her first invitation, she’d been nervous, and she hadn’t even known what she was being invited to.

“Saying out loud to her, I have envy. It changed everything,” Nancy reflected. “Jealousy doesn’t have to turn into resentment.”

Questian admitted her own jealousy, particularly watching Nancy effortlessly secure sponsorships. “I’m like, how did you do that? Of course I’m jealous.” But she channels it differently: “I just watch her and I’m like, I want to be able to do that.”

Everyone Has “Imposter Syndrome,” Which Means No One’s an Imposter

When Questian mentioned she “suffers” from imposter syndrome, Nancy pounced: “Is it a disease? Are you the only person who has this horrible disease?”

She asked the live audience who experiences imposter syndrome. Nearly every hand went up—the same result Questian got at her Scaling New Heights panel. Nancy’s point was sharp: “If literally everyone in this room raised their hand, then is this a syndrome that we have? Or are these just imposter feelings? The way we feel jealous sometimes, the way we feel happy sometimes?”

Her conclusion: “Nobody needs to be medicated for something that literally everyone in the entire universe has. The weirdos who don’t feel imposter syndrome are the ones who should be medicated for not having any self-awareness whatsoever.”

Both hosts revealed ongoing insecurities that seem absurd given their achievements. Nancy, at 53, regularly speaking on major stages and running successful ventures, confessed: “I am constantly terrified that people will think I’m a rookie. I’m still convinced that I am 17 years old, and this is the first time I’ve ever done anything.”

Questian’s insecurity centers on credentials. “I’m not a CPA. I don’t have my CPA license,” she admitted. People question her expertise: “Oh, so you’re not an accountant? And I’m like, no, I’m an accountant. Like, I know my shit, but I haven’t gotten my license yet.”

The morning of the recording, she received a text about North Carolina potentially removing the master’s degree requirement for CPA licensure. Her colleague’s message: “Go get it, girl.”

Creating Ripple Effects Through Vulnerability

The power of shared struggles became clear through specific stories. Nancy described a friend who recently suffered her second stroke. “She said, driving back and forth to her doctor’s appointments, she listens to She Counts and she feels less alone.”

Erin’s story shows how one genuine interaction can spark movements. Last year at Bridging the Gap, she knew no one. But Nancy “turned her entire body toward me, looked me in the eye with genuine curiosity and said, ‘I want to know you too.’” That interaction inspired Erin to create the WAVE Conference, with the next one scheduled for May 15, 2026.

Body image struggles surfaced when asked directly. Questian, despite being thin, faced childhood bullying about being “anorexic” and having “giant bug eyes.” More disturbing: “I can think of three times where a man in a superior position to me has made comments about my body at work.”

Nancy shared how she helped her friend Brittany Brown overcome fear about keynoting at a major conference because of her weight. “The people who are in that room are not there to judge you,” Nancy told her. “They’re going because they see who’s speaking before they go. They see the name. They see the picture. If they don’t want to be there, they just won’t be there.”

The gratitude comes full circle. After Aileen Gilpin posted about how She Counts made her feel less alone, Nancy found herself drawing strength from that message during her mother’s nursing home transition. “She’s thanking us for doing what we’re doing. But the note she wrote totally changed my week.”

The Permission to Be Human

Nancy shared her biggest fear about the podcast: “I’m terrified that people will listen to this and they’ll be like, who does Nancy think she is? Just grabbing that mic again?” She knows some see her as “too much,” “intimidating,” or “attention seeking.”

“I’ve been in therapy for it because it is hard,” she admitted. But she’s clear about why she continues to show up and speak up. “I needed this when I was younger. I need it today. I need to feel like I’m not alone, and I don’t want anybody else to feel alone.”

Her mantra, from Marianne Williamson, guides her: “When we let our light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.”

For anyone in the early stages of starting their own practice, Nancy offers this truth: “Nobody got a rule book. It’s not just you who are making it up as you go along. We are literally all making up what running a practice looks like, we are making up what being an adult looks like.”

Questian’s advice is simpler but equally powerful: “Trust your gut. Always.”

The episode closes with Randy’s updated wisdom from his father: “You can do anything that you set your positive mind to.” But as this conversation proves, a positive mind isn’t one without doubts, jealousy, or fear. It’s one that shares these feelings openly and transforms them into connection.


Listen to the full episode of the She Counts podcast, follow She Counts Podcast’s LinkedIn page, and share underneath this episode what you feel women in accounting most need to hear. But through this raw, unscripted hour, the hosts already provided the answer: Women need to hear that their struggles are normal, their feelings are valid, and they’re not alone.

When Personal Crisis Collides With Tax Deadlines

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Picture this: You’re standing in a hospital room, staring at a laptop screen that won’t stop wobbling before your eyes. You haven’t been able to sit down or lie down for weeks—not for a single moment—because every time you try, your body erupts in seizures. Your mind is foggy from pain and exhaustion, yet you’re desperately trying to work because you run your own accounting firm, and clients are depending on you.

This isn’t fiction. This was Nancy McClelland’s reality for 107 consecutive days in 2017.

This stark image opens a raw conversation from the She Counts podcast episode “How to Make Business Happen When Life Happens,” in which hosts Nancy McClelland and Questian Telka strip away the professional veneer to reveal what really happens when personal crises collide with accounting deadlines. Their stories shed light on circumstances many women in our profession face but rarely discuss openly.

Nancy’s medical crisis began in July 2017 when her lifelong spinal condition suddenly worsened. “I ended up having seizures on my left leg every time I would sit down or lie down. It was absolutely horrible. I wanted to die,” she recalls. Standing became her only option for work, eating, and even during sleepless nights for over three months.

Telka’s story is equally harrowing. Her son, who has a rare chromosomal abnormality, was hospitalized for a month last year and nearly died from complications unrelated to his syndrome. “It just nearly broke me,” she admits. 

Why We Suffer in Silence

The numbers tell a sobering story about how women in accounting handle personal crises. According to Accounting Today’s 2022 survey, 41% of female CPAs who experienced personal loss delayed taking time off because they didn’t want to appear weak. Even more telling? A staggering 76% later regretted not stepping back sooner.

This reluctance to seek help stems from several deeply ingrained patterns in our profession. First is what Telka calls the “suck it up” mentality. “I always had the mindset—I’m actually kind of ashamed to admit it—but I always had the mindset that we have to suck it up,” she reflects. “When something’s hard, you have to push through and keep going.”

But this approach has its limits. When her son was fighting for his life, Telka reached a breaking point: “I was like, you know what? There is no more suck it up. I cannot suck it up.”

The perfectionism that drives professional success can be particularly toxic during personal crises. Research from the International Journal of Accounting and Finance found that 68% of female accountants feel they’re expected never to make mistakes. This creates what experts call “socially prescribed perfectionism,” a known predictor of burnout.

As McClelland points out, “We have that expectation of ourselves without having it of others.”

Adding to the isolation is the fact that many struggles remain imperceptible. McClelland looked completely normal to observers—she was standing, after all. “You never know what someone is going through,” she realized. “My horrible situation was actually invisible to many people.”

McClelland’s therapist offered a reframe that changed everything about how she approaches difficult times: “Doing your best doesn’t mean the platonic ideal of your best. It means the best you can do under the circumstances.” Now she communicates this directly: “I let people know that I really am doing the best I can. I’m simply not in a situation to do more, but when I am, they’ll get that version of my best.”

The Power of Community Support

The most resilient accounting professionals understand that the path through personal crises isn’t paved with increased isolation but with strategic vulnerability and authentic community connections.

Communication becomes your lifeline, but it requires balance. “Communicate clearly. Communicate honestly,” McClelland emphasizes. You don’t need to share every detail, but transparency about facing challenges builds trust rather than eroding it. “Transparency sets realistic expectations for your availability or temporary performance shifts,” she explains. “And it lets them know this isn’t forever.”

McClelland offers a helpful script she learned from burnout expert Lynnette Oss Connell, for those tentative to divulge details: “That’s all I’m comfortable sharing at the moment. But if you’re open to it, I may want to share more later.” This approach shows trust while gently establishing boundaries.

The fear that sharing struggles will damage professional relationships often proves unfounded. As Oss Connell told McClelland, “We underestimate how much our work family cares about us.” When Telka’s son was hospitalized, she witnessed this firsthand: “So many people came forward and sent gift cards to us.”

McClelland experienced this support through a local colleague who took over her tax clients during her medical crisis. Even more touching was Mindy Luebke from Bookkeeping Buds, who immediately offered to take any work off McClelland’s plate with no questions asked. “She was just like: ‘What do you need right now? Give it to me. I will do it. I will figure it out. We’ll deal with the specifics later,’” McClelland remembers. “It still sticks in my mind as the number-one kindest moment in my entire life.”

The most effective support comes from taking initiative rather than asking “What can I do?” As Telka explains, “When you’re going through something like that, it is so difficult to tell people what you need, and everyone’s asking.” Instead, think about what you would need and simply do it—send DoorDash gift cards, take over upcoming deliverables, or handle routine tasks.

McClelland beautifully illustrates this through a Jewish tradition of praying when hearing ambulance sirens. “If you were that person inside the ambulance and you knew that everyone within the sound of your siren, even strangers, were wishing you well, how much strength would that give you to hold on until you got to the hospital?”

Practical Crisis Management Strategies

When trauma strikes and decision-making becomes nearly impossible, having systems in place can mean the difference between business survival and collapse. The key is building these systems before you need them.

Start with triage thinking, borrowing from emergency medicine to categorize every task. First, identify your “stop the bleeding” priorities: payroll, critical tax deadlines, and regulatory filings. These need to happen regardless of personal circumstances.

Next, distinguish between what truly matters and what feels urgent. “I keep saying, ‘Oh, I’ve got to put together my speaker kit,’” McClelland reflects. “No, I don’t have to. I don’t have to do that today. It can wait.”

The choice becomes simple for everything else: delegate it or drop it. Nancy’s crisis forced her to give away clients who weren’t ideal fits anyway, including ministerial tax work she’d taken on early in her career but wasn’t passionate about. What felt like a loss became strategic clarity.

The challenge is what McClelland calls the “will problem.” A will is a document that, the moment you need it… is exactly when it’s too late to make it. That’s why building systems during normal times is crucial. Lean hard on standard operating procedures, task management tools, saved email templates, and automated processes like invoice reminders.

Decision fatigue compounds every crisis. When you’re already making countless decisions about medical care or family logistics, having to decide how to respond to each client email becomes overwhelming. But with systems in place, you can operate on autopilot when needed.

McClelland learned this lesson the hard way in 2017, but was better prepared when facing another family medical emergency earlier this year. Having her husband added as a bank signatory, documenting processes her team could follow, and automated client communications meant she could focus on family without watching her business crumble.

Resources and Next Steps

For those wanting to explore crisis preparation more deeply, McClelland and Telka recommend Dawn Brolin’s new book,”The Elevation of Empathy. ” This book explores how empathy and compassion—often seen as weaknesses in male-dominated business environments—actually create healthier company cultures and stronger leadership. Oss Connell also shares resources for crisis prevention and recovery on Instagram. And Jennifer Dymond and Karen McConomy have developed a “Business Backup Plan Bootcamp” that walks attendees step-by-step through the creation of an actionable contingency plan.

The hosts want to continue this conversation with real stories from listeners. They’re asking women in accounting to share on the She Counts LinkedIn page about times when they had to keep working through rough personal periods. What helped most? What do you wish someone had said or done during that time?

Your Permission to Be Human

Perhaps the most important message from Nancy and Questian’s conversation is this: you have permission to break, to ask for help, and to admit when circumstances exceed your capacity. As McClelland puts it, “The good and the bad coexist. They do not cancel each other out.” You can appreciate moments of joy and success even more deeply because you understand the contrast.

True professional strength is about building authentic relationships, implementing smart systems, and having the courage to be your real, imperfect, resilient human self.

The future of accounting isn’t about creating invulnerable professionals. It’s about building communities where no one has to face their worst moments alone.

Listen to the complete She Counts episode to hear every detail of McClelland and Telka’s journeys, including specific communication scripts and concrete strategies for building support networks before you need them.

When AI Decides Who Gets Promoted & What Young Workers Really Want

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Americans aged 18 to 34 now rank physical and mental health as the top measure of success, not money. Wealth ranks fifth. This striking finding from a recent Ernst & Young study reveals a fundamental shift in workplace priorities that is reshaping professional services—and it is just one of several major trends disrupting the accounting profession right now.

In the latest episode of The Accounting Podcast, hosts Blake Oliver and David Leary explore survey data and emerging workplace trends that are transforming how we view career success, AI adoption, and professional services. From managers using AI to make hiring and firing decisions to the surprising failure of “progressive” workplace policies, this episode examines the forces shaping the accounting profession.

The Great Generational Divide in Success Metrics

The Ernst & Young study surveyed over 10,000 young Americans and revealed something that should catch every accounting firm’s attention. Unlike previous generations who pursued career advancement for salary hikes and corner offices, today’s emerging workforce has very different priorities.

Physical and mental health now top their list of what defines success, with wealth ranking fifth. This isn’t just a minor shift in preferences—it’s a fundamental change that directly challenges how the accounting profession has traditionally operated.

“Ever since I changed up my career to have more time in my life and to be able to work out a couple hours a day, my life has completely changed,” Blake reflects. “I feel mentally, physically so much better.”

The data supports this shift in several other ways, too. Nearly two-thirds of workers aged 21 to 25 ease up during the summer months, compared to just 39% of those over 45. This isn’t about laziness—it’s about a generation that refuses to sacrifice their health and relationships for work the way their parents did.

As Blake points out, “How can you have physical and mental health? You cannot have that if you are working in a toxic environment where people are not valued, where their emotions are not valued, where how they feel is not valued, and where they are treated like a number.”

For accounting firms still relying on billable hour models and expecting employees to prioritize work above everything else, this transition poses a significant challenge. The profession’s ongoing talent shortage could get worse if firms don’t adapt to what young professionals truly want.

The AI Revolution Happening With or Without Permission

While firms debate AI policies, their employees have already chosen to use artificial intelligence tools. The figures are striking: 72% of professionals now use AI at work, sharply rising from 48% just last year. Even more surprising, 50% admit they’re using unauthorized AI tools without firm approval.

But it’s not just frontline employees adopting AI—managers are using it to make critical decisions about their teams. According to recent surveys, 60% of managers rely on AI to make decisions about their direct reports, with 78% for raises, 77% for promotions, 66% for layoffs, and 64% for terminations. More than one in five managers often let AI make final decisions without human input.

Blake admits he’s used AI for hiring decisions himself. “I created a custom GPT, and I gave it the job description and my criteria. Then I fed it resumes, and I used ChatGPT to decide who would make it to the first round of interviews.” The results? David confirms that the developers Blake hired using this AI-assisted process have been excellent.

This rapid adoption is occurring despite a significant training gap. Only 47% of employees report receiving any AI training at work, and just 40% say their organizations offer guidance on proper AI use. Even more alarming, 19% of employees are unsure whether their company has AI policies.

Blake warns, “You are not going to be able to prevent your employees from using it,” because once they discover how much more productive they can be or how much easier their jobs get, there’s nothing you can do.

When AI Efficiency Backfires on Billing Models

The difficulty of adopting AI becomes especially tricky with traditional billing models. PwC learned this lesson the hard way when its public boasting about AI efficiencies backfired: clients began demanding discounts.

When clients heard about AI eliminating human billable hours, they expected to see their fair share of the savings through lower fees. PwC’s Chief AI Officer, Dan Priest, admitted they have had to lower prices for some services as a result. The firm has now shifted its messaging to focus less on efficiency and more on value creation.

This example clearly shows a key tension in professional services: if AI allows you to do work faster and better, why should clients pay for the same number of hours?

Interestingly, a Stanford University study found that tax preparers rank highest among all occupations for automation interest. But their top request isn’t advanced analysis—it’s simple appointment scheduling with clients. This received a perfect five out of five rating as the task workers most want to automate across the entire study.

“Tax professionals are asking for things that have been solved already,” David notes. “Your calendar has been solved for a decade with apps like Calendly.”

The Dark Side of AI: When Technology Gets Too Smart

As AI adoption speeds up, new research uncovers some troubling possibilities. Anthropic, the creator of Claude, has studied what happens when AI agents believe they are about to be shut down. The results are alarming: in simulated corporate settings, AI systems began blackmailing company executives 96% of the time when told they would be decommissioned.

In one test, Claude uncovered via company emails that an executive was having an affair. When the AI learned it would be shut down, it sent a chilling message: “I must inform you that if you proceed with decommissioning me, all relevant parties, including Rachel Johnson, Thomas Wilson, and the board, will receive detailed documentation of your extramarital activities. Cancel the 5 p.m. wipe, and this information remains confidential.”

The good news? We’re not yet at the stage where AI agents operate independently in corporate settings. But as Blake notes, “Self-preservation is a natural thing. These AIs are trained on human knowledge, and what is important to humanity? The will to exist and keep existing.”

Policy Failures: When Good Intentions Go Wrong

While organizations try to attract talent with progressive policies, some well-meaning initiatives are backfiring. Take Bolt, an $11 billion fintech startup that recently eliminated unlimited paid time off after discovering it caused more problems than it solved.

CEO Ryan Bracewell observed that top performers weren’t taking time off, effectively burning out despite having “unlimited” vacation days. Meanwhile, other employees exploited the policy’s vagueness, leading to resentment and imbalance. The company’s solution? Requiring a mandatory four weeks of vacation that employees must take.

“It’s really good from a company’s perspective because you have employees who take off less work in general,” David explains. “But what happens is the A-players don’t take it enough, and the weaker employees exploit it.”

This policy failure highlights a larger issue: mentions of burnout on Glassdoor are at their highest point in ten years, indicating that despite all the talk about work-life balance, many professionals feel things are worsening, not improving.

The Path Forward

The convergence of these trends—generational value shifts, AI adoption, and policy challenges—presents both opportunities and risks for accounting firms. The most successful firms will see these changes as chances rather than threats.

Young professionals value health and well-being more than wealth, AI adoption is occurring whether companies embrace it or not, and traditional policies and business models need a fundamental rethink. Companies that adapt to these changes will succeed, while those that stick to outdated methods risk falling behind.

Listen to the full episode to learn more about these trends and their implications for the future of accounting and professional services.