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From Ticking and Tying to Selling Out Arenas: How One Auditor Became EDM Royalty

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A former Big Four auditor traded spreadsheets for turntables and now commands 11.8 million monthly Spotify listeners, sells out Madison Square Garden, and has racked up over two billion career streams. His name is John Summit, and he might just be the most famous accountant in the world.

On a recent episode of The Accounting Podcast, hosts Blake Oliver and David Leary dove into John’s remarkable transformation from EY auditor to global EDM superstar. His career change story captures something profound happening in the accounting profession right now.

From Audit Room to Arena Stage

“If you’re into electronic music, then you know who John Summit is,” Blake explained to David during the episode. 

The numbers tell an incredible story. John—born John Walter Schuster in Naperville, Illinois—followed the traditional accounting path at first. He earned his undergraduate and master’s degrees in accounting from the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. From 2018 to 2019, he worked as an auditor at EY in Chicago, starting at $65,000 a year while DJing on weekends.

Blake even pulled up John’s CPA license during the show. “I went to the Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation, and I looked him up by his original name,” he said. The license was active in 2018 and expired in 2022, right around the time John’s music career went stratospheric.

Today, John’s success metrics are staggering. His debut album “Comfort in Chaos” hit number two on the Billboard Top Dance/Electronic Albums chart and cracked the Billboard 200’s top 40. He headlines festivals like Coachella and Tomorrowland, and his own festival, Experts Only, draws 50,000 attendees.

Leaning Into the Accounting Story

What makes John unique is how he’s embraced his accounting past. His new album “CTRL Escape” drops on April 15th, Tax Day, and the cover art shows him sitting atop office ceiling tiles, the corporate world below giving way to open sky above.

“He’s dropping one track from the album every Wednesday,” Blake noted. “And the reason he’s doing it on Wednesday is that he remembers Hump day being the toughest day in the office.”

The album’s merchandise had David cracking up. “Crappy accounting firm swag. This is great,” he said, looking at the offerings. “It’s a backpack that says Summit CPAs, a pen that says Summit CPAs. This is so great he’s leaning into it like that.”

The music video for “Lights Go Out” drives the theme home. John appears in an oversized tan suit at “Summit CPAs,” working at an old green-screen computer before leading his fellow office workers in what Blake described as “basically like an accounting firm turning into a rave.”

The Profession John Left Is Disappearing

Blake and David’s conversation takes a darker turn when they discuss Botkeeper. One of the original “AI bookkeeping” startups announced it was shutting down after 11 years.

“They did the typical tech company ‘fake it ‘til you make it,’” David explained. Botkeeper promised AI-powered bookkeeping but was actually using offshore accountants in the Philippines. When real AI technology finally arrived through companies like OpenAI and Anthropic, investors weren’t interested in funding a company that had burned through capital on the false promise.

It wasn’t just Botkeeper. Jenesys, a UK-based AI bookkeeping startup, also entered a formal sales process after key investors pulled out. Clearly, the old model of pretending to have AI while using human workers is dead.

Meanwhile, companies with actual AI capabilities are thriving. Tax AI startup Accrual raised $75 million, Audit AI startup Fieldguide raised $75 million, and Pilot announced what it called an “AI accountant,” a fully autonomous system capable of running end-to-end bookkeeping with “zero need for human intervention” in typical cases.

Why Tax and Audit AI Are Different

Blake explained why investors are pouring money into tax and audit AI while bookkeeping AI companies struggle.

“When we moved to cloud bookkeeping and accounting, we were able to set up rules-based systems,” he said. “You can still automate 80% of bookkeeping work today with just the old tech.”

But tax and audit are different beasts. “Those areas of accounting were not automatable with rules-based tech, because there are too many gray areas, there’s too much complexity. But AI is starting to handle it really, really, really well.”

To illustrate the point, Blake shared his own experience with Claude, Anthropic’s AI assistant. He gave it access to a folder of scanned documents that his scanner had poorly named and asked it to organize them.

“It created a whole logical folder structure. Different types of files, receipts, legal documents, statements,” he said. “And then it put all the documents into those folders and renamed all the documents based on the content of the PDFs. And it did this in minutes.”

“You can get that if you’re a pro subscriber for like $20 a month. It’s incredible.”

The Entry-Level Jobs Are Vanishing

This AI revolution is having a profound impact on accounting careers. Technology is automating routine tasks that once defined entry-level positions at breakneck speed.

“We’re seeing reductions in entry-level jobs, not reductions in mid-career or later-stage career positions,” Blake observed. “It’s really, really hard to find a tax manager. Nobody can find a tax manager for their public accounting firm.”

The work being automated reads like a first-year auditor’s job description. “Requesting documents from clients, receiving and organizing them, rolling forward prior year workpapers, ticking and tying. AI is starting to do all of that stuff.”

As a result, “it’s really hard to get a job as a staff accountant because nobody wants to train you and they don’t have work to give you to justify the cost of training you for several years.”

Even the Big Four Feel the Pressure

In an ironic twist, even KPMG International is feeling the AI pressure. The firm recently pushed its own auditor, Grant Thornton UK, to lower its audit fee by 14%, arguing that AI-driven efficiencies should reduce costs.

“The negotiations reportedly included pressure tactics, where KPMG threatened to switch auditors if Grant Thornton didn’t agree to a significant reduction,” Blake said, citing Financial Times reporting.

The fee went from $416,000 in 2024 to $357,000 in 2025. As Blake wryly noted: “I think KPMG ought to watch out, because now clients are going to ask for the same fee reduction.”

The Pyramid Is Crumbling

This pressure on fees creates a domino effect. Lower fees mean less money for staff. Fewer entry-level positions mean the traditional pyramid model of public accounting, where large numbers of junior staff support a small number of managers and partners, is collapsing.

“The whole model is going to have to shift,” Blake said. “The pyramid model of accounting is going away. And that’s going to fundamentally change our profession, because that’s been the way everyone got into accounting for a hundred years.”

Blake predicted that within five to ten years, timesheets and time-based billing will disappear entirely. The firms that survive will abandon the old model of counting hours and bodies.

There is a silver lining for those who adapt. Blake shared his own experience. “I saw a 5x increase in my revenue just as a freelancer” after embracing cloud technology. His effective hourly rate went from $20 to $100, and his workload actually decreased.

The Escape Route Is Closing

John Summit celebrates his escape from accounting through music that resonates with millions who understand the cubicle grind. He drops tracks on Wednesdays because that was the hardest day to push through. He releases albums on Tax Day. He sells fake accounting firm swag as merchandise.

But the entry-level accounting experience he’s immortalizing—the fluorescent lights, the routine tasks, the path that led him from college to Big Four—is rapidly disappearing. Future accountants may never know that particular grind because the jobs simply won’t exist.

Accounting will likely survive with higher earnings for those who remain and adapt. But the traditional path into the profession will evolve.

As David suggested during the show, if you’re Summit CPAs—a real accounting firm that happens to share the name—you might want to figure out how to capitalize on all the traffic coming your way. Because in a profession being reshaped by AI, you need to grab opportunities wherever you find them.

For the complete discussion of John’s journey, the AI transformation of accounting, and what it means for the profession’s future, listen to the full episode of The Accounting Podcast.

The Accounting Profession Is Growing—So Why Can’t New Graduates Find Jobs?

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Something strange is happening in accounting right now. The profession is growing, with employment for accountants projected to increase by 10% through 2026, faster than most other careers. Yet new accounting graduates are struggling to find jobs. How can both things be true at the same time?

In a recent episode of The Accounting Podcast, hosts Blake Oliver and David Leary tackled this paradox head-on, sparked by a sobering prediction from Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei: AI could displace 50% of entry-level white-collar jobs in the next one to five years.

“Accountants coming out of school are having a hard time getting jobs right now, which is strange,” Blake said during the discussion. “The profession is growing, but entry-level jobs are declining.”

The reason behind that paradox is AI is automating exactly the kind of work that new accountants traditionally cut their teeth on. And that’s creating a bigger problem than just unemployment. It’s threatening the way accountants have learned their craft for generations.

The Work That’s Disappearing

Think about what entry-level accountants actually do (or used to do). They gather documents for audits and organize them into folders. They copy last year’s work papers and update them with new numbers. They reconcile accounts, enter data, and basically do the grunt work that teaches them how financial information flows through a business.

These aren’t exciting tasks, but they serve a purpose. By doing this work, new accountants develop an eye for what looks right and what doesn’t. They learn where errors hide and build intuition.

Now, AI is making all of that work disappear.

During the episode, Blake described Anthropic’s new Claude Cowork feature. It’s AI that can literally click around on your computer as a human would. In one example, a journalist asked it to organize a messy folder of business receipts. The AI asked a few questions about how to sort them, then went to work. Five minutes later, it produced a clean Excel spreadsheet listing two years of expenses.

“File management, organizing folders, batch renaming, generating summary spreadsheets,” Blake noted. This is exactly the kind of work that used to take hours of a staff accountant’s time.

The capabilities keep expanding. Claude now has an Excel integration that lets you skip learning formulas entirely. Need to split a column with full names into separate first and last name columns? Just type what you want in plain English.

“All the Excel wizards are going to be in trouble,” David joked, “because I’ll be able to type in ‘put two more columns, first name, last name separately,’ and it’ll go do the formula for me.”

Another striking example is that Gusto now lets you run payroll directly through ChatGPT. Just type “@Gusto, help me run payroll” and have a conversation. No separate login or clicking through menus—just chat.

Where Do New Graduates Go Now?

This automation creates a problem that goes way beyond individual job losses. Most accountants start their careers in public accounting, doing exactly this kind of entry-level work. That’s how they learn the skills they’ll need to become managers and partners later on.

“Where do accounting graduates go to get their first jobs if they don’t go into public accounting?” Blake asked. “Who’s going to want to hire them?”

The challenge is that new graduates don’t have the experience to do the mid-career jobs that are actually in demand. They can’t review work they’ve never done themselves. As David put it, “They don’t have the skills to monitor AI yet, or know when AI is wrong.”

Workers sense this shift happening. According to a survey mentioned by CFO.com, 60% of U.S. adults believe AI will eliminate more jobs than it creates by 2026. Only 16% think AI could never replace what they do.

This fear is already changing behavior. Last year, 51% of workers said they’d quit if their company demanded a return to the office. This year, that number crashed to just 7%.

“The pendulum has swung back to employers,” Blake observed. “Employers have the power in the market.”

The Industry Starts to Respond

Some companies are beginning to tackle this problem, though it’s unclear if their efforts will be enough.

Intuit announced its most ambitious initiative so far: a program to upskill 1 million accounting students over the next five years. They’re focusing on “digital data and advisory skills,” basically teaching students to work alongside AI rather than compete with it.

The program includes online learning, mentorship, and certifications like QuickBooks ProAdvisor. It kicked off with a virtual event in early February about “Skills for the New Era of Accounting.”

But beyond formal programs, the hosts suggested that individual accountants need to change how they think about their work entirely.

“The most important skill in the AI era is going to be curiosity,” Blake argued.

He shared a practical tip for working with AI. Instead of trying to write the perfect prompt, have the AI ask you questions. His go-to addition to any request is, “First, ask me questions to clarify exactly what I’m looking for. After each of my answers, reply with your next question. Include a confidence score as a percentage. When you achieve 100% confidence, ask me to confirm I am ready for you to do the task.”

David added another crucial insight. “That ‘please wait until I say go’ is the most important prompt.” Without explicit instructions to wait, AI tools tend to race ahead with incomplete information.

A Paradox for Payroll Companies

The episode raised an interesting question about companies like ADP, which announced new AI agents for payroll and HR tasks. These agents can audit for errors, flag missing tax IDs, and answer HR questions using company handbooks.

But as David pointed out, there’s something odd about payroll companies embracing AI so enthusiastically. “If you believe AI is going to be important, that’s going to kill millions and millions of these jobs that get paid through ADP,” he said. If AI eliminates 50% of entry-level jobs, that’s potentially half of ADP’s revenue from running payroll.

Paychex mentioned AI 50 times in their recent earnings call. Investors are clearly asking hard questions about how payroll companies will survive if their customer base of employed humans shrinks dramatically.

What Happens Next?

The tools reshaping accounting are here now. Claude can organize receipts. ChatGPT can run payroll. AI agents can audit for errors. Every month brings new capabilities that used to require human hands and human hours.

The mismatch is striking. Technology advances in months, while professional training evolves over years or decades. Universities design programs on multi-year cycles. Firms have hiring patterns built over generations. Everyone assumes the entry-level work that has trained accountants forever will continue to exist.

That assumption is crumbling. The document gathering, data entry, and reconciliations are becoming prompts typed into AI interfaces rather than skills learned through repetition.

For firms, this means rethinking how new hires develop competence. For educators, it means teaching students to verify and question rather than just execute. For students and early-career professionals, it means learning to supervise technology rather than compete with it.

As Blake put it near the end of the episode, “I can be ten times as productive now doing everything I do with AI, and I don’t need to hire a huge team to do it.”

That’s great news for experienced professionals who already know their craft. For those just starting out, it’s an entirely different story—one the profession is only beginning to write.

Listen to the full episode of The Accounting Podcast for more insights on AI tools reshaping accounting workflows, practical prompting techniques, and updates from Intuit, Xero, ADP, and other platforms. Understanding how AI affects entry-level work is table stakes for anyone making decisions about talent and training in the years ahead.

New CPA Mobility Rules Mean Your Firm Is Probably Breaking at Least One State Law Right Now

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The accounting profession scored a rare bipartisan win this week and simultaneously confronted a growing compliance nightmare that’s hitting firms across the country. On this episode of The Accounting Podcast, hosts Blake Oliver and David Leary tackled both stories, along with Deloitte’s terrible week, new research on why accountants flee public accounting, and a special guest segment on the hidden complexities of CPA mobility.

A Rare Win for Government Transparency

Blake kicked off the episode by celebrating legislation he actually supports. The Fiscal State of the Nation Act, a bipartisan bill from Representative Andy Barr (R-KY) and Representative Scott Peters (D-CA), would require the Comptroller General to deliver an annual presentation to Congress on the federal government’s financial statements.

“We need to deliver an annual report to the board of directors, to the investors, to the people,” Blake said. The bill has broad support, with 81% of Americans backing the idea, according to a Harris Poll conducted on behalf of the AICPA.

The AICPA’s strong endorsement marked a rare moment of agreement between Blake and the organization. “I don’t think that’s ever happened before,” he joked, noting he was supporting two AICPA positions in one episode, the other being new independence standards for alternative practice structures.

The CPA Mobility Crisis

The episode featured Lindsay Patterson, co-founder and CEO of CPA QualityPro, who joined to explain how the profession’s victory on alternative pathways created an unexpected compliance minefield.

Twenty-five states adopted alternative pathways to CPA licensure, allowing candidates to pursue certification with 120 credit hours plus two years of experience instead of the traditional 150 hours plus one year. While this addresses the pipeline crisis, it’s shattered the “substantial equivalency” that made CPA mobility work.

“After going through every single state’s laws and rules, if a firm operates across state lines now, I bet they’re breaking at least one law,” Lindsay warned. “There are so many little nuances.”

The problem is that the old system worked because every state had basically the same requirements. Now, state mobility laws have wildly different rules about which credentials qualify. For example, a New York firm doing an audit in Oregon might discover too late that team members licensed through certain pathways can’t legally sign off on the work.

Lindsay outlined what firms now need to track for every CPA: whether they completed 120 or 150 hours, if they had an accounting concentration, whether their experience was supervised or just verified, and if they had one or two years of it. Most firms have never collected this data.

“Do you know any firm that asks their employees, ‘Was your experience verified or supervised?’” Lindsay asked.

The penalties are real. Lindsay has seen fines from $1,000 to $15,000, with some states being particularly aggressive. She once received an email from a state board because she had “CPE” in her email signature and had emailed someone in their state. “I’m like, who reported me for this? First off, we’re planning a birthday party, so calm down.”

David pointed out that this problem existed before alternative pathways, but Lindsay agreed it’s gotten worse. The pandemic made it even more complex, with CPAs moving states and assuming mobility provisions cover them when they actually need local licenses.

Deloitte’s Very Bad Week

While firms grapple with mobility rules, Deloitte faced a different kind of scrutiny. A viral Twitter post viewed 43.5 million times called the firm “a $74 billion cancer metastasized across America,” highlighting failed government IT projects and cost overruns.

“They take on a project like the California payroll system, and the project never gets done. And they just keep charging for changes and overruns,” David explained.

Making matters worse, Deloitte announced plans to hire 50,000 employees in India right after conducting layoffs. “The narrative out there now is Deloitte’s taking billions of dollars of taxpayer money to hire people in India,” David said. “Is Deloitte trying to get in the crosshairs of the Trump administration?”

Lindsay offered a philosophical take. saying, “Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity.”

Why Accountants Really Leave

A new report from researchers at Virginia Commonwealth University and Clemson University confirmed what many suspected: work-life balance, not money, drives most exits from public accounting. The study found poor work-life balance is the primary reason people leave, and they’re skeptical of empty retention promises.

“It’s the hours, the deadlines, the pressure, the unending timesheets, and the inability to take PTO,” Blake summarized.

The research also revealed that leaving is usually a long, social process with warning signs, meaning firms have opportunities to intervene if they’re paying attention. But as Lindsay noted, this isn’t just an accounting problem. “I think a lot of companies, not just accounting” struggle with retention.

Reasons for Optimism

Despite the challenges, accounting undergraduate enrollment rose 7.3% this fall—the third straight year of growth. One in eight business students now major in accounting, up from one in nine two years ago.

“We said it was going to happen,” Blake said, crediting alternative pathway reforms. “Get rid of that extra year of unnecessary, expensive education and more people will want to be accounting majors.”

Lindsay mentioned another positive indicator. “We have so much private equity investment in CPA firms right now. They are not looking to invest their money in an area that they think is about to go extinct.”

When a listener asked whether AI would eliminate accounting jobs, the panel was reassuring. David maintained his position that AI won’t replace bookkeeping entirely, though he admitted QuickBooks’ new AI-powered reconciliation features were “slick.” Lindsay was even more direct: “Get your CPA, you’ll get a good job.”

The Bottom Line

The accounting profession is navigating a period of significant change. Alternative pathways bring in new talent, but create compliance headaches. Technology is advancing but not eliminating jobs. And while firms like Deloitte face public scrutiny, the fundamentals of the profession remain strong.

For practitioners, Lindsay recommends auditing your compliance to understand how each employee got licensed and prepare for a more complex regulatory landscape. The enrollment numbers suggest the profession’s future is bright if it can manage the growing pains.

To hear the full discussion, including Blake reading Jerome Powell’s statement about standing up to political pressure and a truly bizarre story about a Florida gubernatorial candidate proposing a 50% tax on OnlyFans content, listen to the complete episode of The Accounting Podcast.

The Manager Paradox: Why AI Agents Need Just as Much Oversight as Human Employees

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David Leary had something to confess at the start of The Accounting Podcast episode 471. He needed an employee health insurance survey for his company, and the whole thing, from blank page to finished Google Form, took him three and a half minutes.

“I started with nothing, and I needed a result, and end to end it did everything for me,” David told co-host Blake Oliver. ChatGPT created the survey questions first. When its implementation got clunky, Google Forms with built-in Gemini AI took over and built the entire form. No tedious field creation or manual option adding. Work that would have taken an hour vanished in the time it takes to brew coffee.

It’s the kind of AI success story that’s becoming common: technology wiping out drudgery and freeing humans for better work. But as the hosts dug deeper in this episode, they uncovered a reality check for accounting firm leaders.

AI’s Hidden Cost: Same Management Time, Different Headaches

The tools keep getting better at connecting dots. Blake pointed to Google’s new “Personal Intelligence” feature that links Gmail, photos, YouTube, and search into Gemini with one click. ChatGPT has similar workspace integrations that search your email history for client and project information.

“Once your firm gets big enough, you don’t realize three other people also have relationships with that client,” David noted. AI that surfaces that context before you act is a real leap forward.

But the success story gets complicated when you deploy AI agents across an organization. Jason Lemkin, who runs SaaStr (a community for software startup founders), has been tracking the results of such deployments. At SaaStr, about 60% of the team is now made up of AI agents. They deliver huge productivity gains, but also need about the same weekly management time as humans.

“The big mistake,” David explained, summarizing Jason’s findings, “is that you can’t treat AI as set-it-and-forget-it. You have to have daily management of AI.”

The reason you need that oversight is the accuracy rates. For five- to ten-minute tasks, AI hits near-perfect accuracy: 99.9%. But stretch those tasks to an hour or two, and accuracy drops to 80% or even 50%. And AI mistakes don’t announce themselves.

“The AI makes these small mistakes that compound into big mistakes,” Blake said. “Humans do this, too. If you don’t have proper oversight of people, they’re just doing their own tasks, and small errors can compound into disasters.”

When There’s No One Watching the Store

The IRS is an excellent case study for what happens without human oversight of AI. The IRS just lost more than 25% of its workforce through various reduction programs, according to the IRS Advisory Council’s annual report. Over 2,000 IT workers have left since January 2025 alone. More than half of the $80 billion allocated under the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act has been rescinded, totaling about $42 billion since 2023, including nearly all enforcement funding.

Now the agency faces implementing the One Big Beautiful Bill Act (OBBBA), which includes more than 100 tax law changes. They need new guidance, technology updates, and process changes—all with fewer people and less money.

The consequences of this skeleton crew approach became clear in the case of Attallah Williams, a former SBA and IRS employee charged with stealing more than $3.5 million from federal COVID-19 relief programs. Williams used insider access at both agencies to approve fraudulent applications, recruiting accomplices through Instagram and collecting kickbacks. The scheme ran for three years and touched Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans, Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) grants, and employee retention credits.

“If one person can approve fraudulent pandemic applications, there are no controls at the federal level,” David said.

Tax Season Reality Check

Against this backdrop, tax season readiness varies wildly. CPA Trendlines’ busy season survey found that only 44% of firms feel about as ready as they were last year. Larger firms with 25 or more professionals report greater stability thanks to deeper staffing and refined processes. Smaller firms with 1-10 employees face the most volatility.

“Late documents, absences, compressed review cycles. When you have fewer people, you have less redundancy,” Blake noted. “When problems happen, it hurts more.”

Tax-heavy firms feel particularly exposed since their entire season depends on client behavior. Firms with recurring revenue from bookkeeping or advisory work report more stability because their work spreads throughout the year.

One bright spot came from Brenda Cannon of Cannon & Associates, who shared an innovation on the CPA Trendlines podcast. Instead of letting tax work pile up, she gives clients calendar links to schedule when they’ll submit documents. Eight slots per day, Monday through Thursday. Fridays for internal work. No slots three weeks before April 15th (reserved for extensions). Clients who don’t schedule by year-end get marked inactive.

“Clients no longer complain about extensions because they basically chose to miss their self-imposed deadline,” Blake explained. Only about 5% of clients left after implementing the system.

The Vanishing Entry Level

But even successful adaptations can’t solve a bigger problem: what happens when AI absorbs all the entry-level work that trains future professionals?

“The quality burden used to fall on the senior staff and managers,” David said. “But now the managers are going to have to bear that weight.”

Blake expanded the concern. Managers used to trust that trained seniors had learned to review work through years of practice. With AI handling those training tasks, that trust disappears. “I have a theory that life is going to get harder for managers in public accounting because they’re going to be the only thing between the AI doing the work and the partner.”

A viewer captured the problem in the live chat: “You can’t get experience to become a manager without an entry level. Bots and offshore have absorbed entry. So how do you get new managers?”

Blake’s answer was sobering. If firms can’t develop managers internally, they’ll have to recruit from industry. But industry professionals who’ve tasted work-life balance won’t return to the grind of public accounting. “The people won’t drink the Kool-Aid after they’ve had a break from drinking the Kool-Aid.”

Testing for Yesterday’s Skills

This transformation raises tough questions about the CPA exam itself. The 2024 pass rates were:

  • Audit and Attestation: 46%
  • Financial Accounting and Reporting: 4%
  • Tax Compliance and Planning: 73%
  • Regulation: 63%
  • Business Analysis and Reporting: 38%
  • Information Systems and Controls:58%

“The hardest part of the exam isn’t the material,” Blake argued. “We’re not doing advanced math. We’re doing algebra. It’s not complicated stuff; it’s just a lot of memorization, and it’s a real grind.”

Blake’s theory is the exam filters for grinders because that’s what firms needed. “The exam is a grind, and public accounting is a grind so they lined up.”

But that’s not the job anymore. “We don’t need accountants to come in and do a bunch of boring, manual, tedious work,” Blake said. AI does that now. The profession needs people who can analyze concepts and direct AI agents, not memorize rules they can look up in seconds.

“You have all these AI tools where they have all the knowledge. You don’t need to memorize things,” David added.

Yet change comes slowly. “Even if the powers that be agree with you, Blake, it’ll be a decade before they change that,” David said.

The Bottom Line

David’s three-minute survey creation shows where we’re headed: routine tasks becoming instant. But efficiency isn’t freedom. AI needs as much management as humans, but a different kind of management. The cognitive burden shifts up while the entry-level work that trained judgment disappears.

Every knowledge profession will face the same questions. How do you develop talent when AI does the training work? How do you maintain quality when the middle layer of reviewers vanishes? How do you test for skills that matter when memorization becomes obsolete?

Listen to the full episode of The Accounting Podcast for all the details, including more on the IRS crisis, innovative tax season solutions, and a surprise supporter for millionaire taxes.

From Spreadsheets to Raids: What Happens When We Defund Financial Oversight

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Three years ago, Fox News host Greg Gutfeld warned viewers that 87,000 new IRS agents would create a “police state.” Today, armed ICE agents are going door-to-door in Minneapolis without warrants, investigating financial fraud. In other words, doing the work accountants would normally do with spreadsheets and calculators.

“We’ve replaced armed IRS agents with armed ICE agents doing work for the IRS,” says David Leary, co-host of The Accounting Podcast, still trying to process this turn of events. “I’ve lost sleep over this.”

In their latest episode, David and co-host Blake Oliver connect the dots between the 2022 fight over IRS funding and today’s reality in Minnesota, where billions in fraud have led to what they call a predictable but devastating outcome.

Minnesota’s Billion-Dollar Fraud Problem

The numbers coming out of Minnesota are staggering. On December 19th, prosecutors announced charges against more than 90 people across multiple public assistance programs. The fraud schemes read like a criminal playbook: daycares that collected $110 million through fake claims, the Feeding Our Future scandal that stole nearly $250 million in pandemic food aid, autism services billing for work never performed, using unqualified staff, and housing stabilization fraud.

A federal warrant has flagged 14 Medicare programs with significant fraud problems. The potential losses are in the billions.

“This is fraud that has taken place over many years,” David explains. The investigation has been ongoing for a while, but the political fallout came fast. Trump accused Somali immigrants of widespread fraud. A YouTuber documentary filmmaker went to Minnesota and started visiting these daycares, creating viral content that painted Minnesota as corrupt on all fronts.

In response, Trump sent 2,000 ICE agents to carry out what he called “the largest immigration operation ever.”

But here’s where it gets interesting for accountants. As Department of Homeland Security Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin explained on a radio show, “Right now, on the ground in Minneapolis, Homeland Security investigators are going door to door to these suspected fraud sites. It’s daycare centers or healthcare centers and businesses around them as well.”

No warrants. Just agents showing up at doors.

Compare that to what happened just 30 days earlier at Taco Giro in Tucson. ICE and IRS Criminal Investigation spent years building a case, got proper warrants, then executed 16 search warrants as part of their investigation into immigration and tax violations. That’s how law enforcement used to work: investigation, evidence, warrants, then action.

“Raids have replaced audits and guns have replaced spreadsheets,” David observes.

The Time Machine: Back to 2022

To understand how we got here, Blake and David take listeners back to April 18, 2022. As explained in episode 292 of what was then called the Cloud Accounting Podcast, that’s when the IRS was set to receive $80 billion through the Inflation Reduction Act, including funding for 87,000 new enforcement agents.

The political response was fierce. They replay a segment featuring enrolled agent Adam Markowitz, whose tweet went viral and got him attacked on Fox News. Markowitz wrote, “All of my GOP friends who are worried about the 87,000 IRS enforcement agents coming after the little guy. How about just don’t cheat on tax returns?”

Gutfeld’s response on Fox was brutal, calling Markowitz a “schmuck” and warning viewers, “If you have an IQ higher than an artichoke, you must see that by now, this country is heading towards a police state.”

“The police state still happened,” David points out. “We didn’t avoid it.”

The hosts then shared a detail most people missed. In November 2024, a federal judge blocked the IRS from further record sharing with ICE. But the court documents revealed the IRS had already handed over tens of thousands of taxpayer records to ICE, including home addresses. ICE had requested more than one million records from the IRS.

“This might be the reason Billy Long is out,” David speculates about the departed IRS commissioner nominee. “He might have been pushing back on this.”

Following the Money (Or Not)

The pattern is clear to anyone who understands accounting controls. Over the past decade, Congress repeatedly cut the IRS budget while increasing funding for ICE. They shifted from investigation and fines to enforcement.

“Taxes dictate social policies,” David notes. “Budgets also do that. What you fund and budget is what the government is going to do.”

The result is less nonprofit oversight, slower detection of payroll and benefits fraud, and fewer audits. The absence of all those controls that seemed expensive created billions in fraud.

“We’re in the golden age of fraud,” David warns. “Maybe the new Enron is not one company; it’s just billions and billions and billions of small frauds because we’ve cut all of the controls that might catch it.”

Blake connects this to broader economic concerns. According to a Harris poll, 45% of Americans believe their financial security is worsening. Even 45% of Republicans think the economy is in a recession, despite GDP growth of 4.3% in Q3.

“If you’re the president and you don’t want people paying attention to the economy, what do you do?” Blake asks. “You start foreign conflicts or you create internal conflict.”

The Profession’s Own Control Problems

The accounting profession has its own control problem. The AICPA recently proposed major ethics rule changes for firms backed by private equity, worried that outside money could compromise auditor independence.

Under the new rules, firms can’t escape independence requirements by simply creating separate legal entities. If a CPA firm depends on a non-CPA entity for staff and infrastructure, they’re treated as one unit for independence purposes. PE-backed firms also can’t audit portfolio companies in the same fund.

“As CPAs, we stand for independence, objectivity, ethics,” Blake emphasizes. “Nobody else can do audits.”

But existing controls don’t always have teeth. The hosts discuss WH Smith, the historic British retailer. Their audit firm, PwC, missed profit misstatements that cost shareholders 600 million pounds. Yet the board recommended keeping PwC as their auditor.

“An auditor can cost a company half a billion dollars and they keep their contract,” David says, incredulous. “If anyone else failed that badly, you would fire them.”

The Lesson for Accountants

“Everything’s an accounting story,” David insists, and this one hits close to home.

The Minnesota fraud crisis shows what happens when you defund financial oversight. The 2022 IRS debate shows how fear of government overreach led to the exact outcome critics wanted to avoid. The profession’s own struggles with independence and accountability show these patterns repeat everywhere.

“If you have underfunded controls and you don’t have preventive measures, it always shows up as a very big expense,” David explains. “One time it was Enron. Now the expense is humans getting shot.”

Accountants talking to clients about taxes can do their part by explaining where that money goes and why controls matter. Because the alternative—as Minnesota shows—is much worse.

Blake and David dig deeper into these connections in the full episode, including their take on California’s proposed billionaire tax, why wars boost economies, and what Excel championship winners can teach us about efficiency. Listen to the complete discussion above or wherever you get your podcasts.